With a simple, yet wildly effective couplet — “Just love me/ I wanna be with you, ayy” – Zacari and Kendrick Lamar crafted a generational love anthem. Aptly titled “Love,” the heart-melting duet served as the third and final single from Lamar’s Pulitzer Prize-winning DAMN. LP, peaking at No. 11 on the Billboard Hot 100 and launching Zacari into the mainstream spotlight.
A guest appearance on a hit single from one of the most important albums of the 2010s would normally kickstart a grueling campaign to solidify solo stardom – but Zacari didn’t rush out his first LP. In fact, the 30-year-old, Bakersfield-bred multi-instrumentalist took over seven years to craft Bliss, his official debut solo studio album. “When I look back on my career now over the seven years, all I knew was that I wanted to find this sound for my album and it took [a lot of] time,” he remarks.
In the time between “Love” and Bliss, Zacari has remained musically active, dropping a pair of EPs – 2019’s Run Wild Run Free and 2021’s Sol – and a slew of collaborations, including link-ups with James Fauntleroy, Blxst and Denzel Curry. And although he had already appeared on records from several TDE artists – including close friend Ab-Soul – the indie label officially announced Zacari’s signing in early 2019. Now on the same roster as cultural phenoms like SZA and (previously) Lamar, Zacari spent the past few years soaking up as much knowledge as he could.
“These artists like Kendrick and SZA are real prophets,” Zacari muses from Encino, CA, via Zoom. “If I can even reach a fraction of the people they reach, I’m happy.”
In opting for a longer road to his debut album, Zacari arrives at Bliss with not only an interconnected catalog of other projects, but also with a fully realized iteration of his sound. The reflective R&B energy of “Love” anchors the LP, but Zacari juxtaposes those murky synths against raucous rock-leaning guitars, unexpected forays into rap and successful stabs at club records. With his versatility on full display, Zacari has delivered a record that makes the seven-year wait feel worth it.
“When [we] go in these meetings for playlists, we don’t know what to play,” he notes. “I try my best to not even think about that, and just make what I want to make and what feels right to me.”
In an expansive conversation with Billboard, Zacari opens up about the making of Bliss, what he’s learned from his TDE labelmates, how A24 movies inspired his visuals and the hilarious story of his first interaction with Skrillex.
It’s been over seven years since your voice captivated millions of people on “Love” from Kendrick Lamar’s DAMN. Album. Where’s your head out right now a couple years removed from the peak of that song’s popularity?
Man, I was so thankful for that song to this day, because it put me in the position where I could be able to take my time with music. Even being around Kendrick, aside from making that specific song, he allowed me to be around the studio for years to watch him create albums. ScHoolboy Q too. Being around [them in] the studio was like, Okay I see how much time and effort and work they put in. I [was] so new to this [that] I just soaked up everything.
Does it really feel like seven years since “Love?”
It comes in waves where you’re patient and you’re impatient and [then] you’re frustrated and then you’re like, Damn, this is why it took so long. When I listen to the music, I’m thankful for how long I took on it and I’m also thankful for the features that have carried me over the years and the smaller projects that I’ve dropped. That’s what’s taking the pressure off me trying to rush out a first album. Even nowadays [with] how people are consuming [music,] people aren’t too pressed about receiving albums.
I spoke to SiR about his new album earlier this year, and he was talking about the TDE mindset of “we come when we’re ready.” Did you have to adjust to that way of thinking at all, or was that your vibe?
I think I had to adjust to that mindset a little bit, because when [TDE co-president Anthony “Moosa” Tiffith, Jr.] first found me, I was just dropping music on SoundCloud and it’s such a different feeling. When you’re in the room with these people like Kendrick and ScHoolboy, and they have their track record of albums and you’re watching them do it, [you see] what it really takes. It’s super important for the quality to not only be in the sound, but [also] in the writing and introspectiveness. Your pen is going to grow, you’re going to experience more things, and then you have to learn how to put them out in in the right way. I think that’s what takes time.
I think there’s moments when you just go in and make whatever you feel, but I think there’s still an important art element to an album where there’s a concept it’s put together as a whole. I think it’s a different category than a mixtape or a single. It’s like a movie. You’re writing a whole movie rather than putting a bunch of good songs together.
Over the past six years, did the album’s concept change in any significant way?
It really changed with me. I have high highs; I have low lows. I went through relationships, so there’s love songs in there. And then I fell out of a relationship over these years. Things with my faith and lifestyle changed too. Each song that I’ve collected over the years for [this] album comes from a place in my life over the past seven years. I feel like every song on my album has to have come from a real place or it doesn’t even connect with me.
I think “Ave Maria” is one of those is where it was about my faith journey. “Trust Is” is a big one [about] the relationship. I knew one day we were gonna break up, but it’s not going to be today. This was years before it happened, but I wrote that song when I kind of knew. There’s moments all over the album like that.
Who from TDE have you learned the most from since signing?
I learned so much from everybody, but I would definitely have to say [Ab-] Soul. Before I even signed to TDE, I was living with him in the same crib for a year, thanks to Moosa. When I was first around him, I was pretty new to LA and his way of thinking blew my mind so much. It was hard for me to even understand… even his spiritual awareness is on a different level. His knowledge of everything is on a different level.
I remember Lupe Fiasco visited one time and they had a conversation together, and I couldn’t even understand what they were talking about. It felt like they were rapping to each other in conversation, it was insane. Soul has always been there for me as far as reminding me to be myself and stick with my own tone and not [get too concerned with] what other people are doing. Having him on my outro too, I’ve listened to that verse for years on my own to help me get through things. The way he’s talking about the cycle of life and how to keep hope, I think he really helped me bring this album back to the light.
There was a time I sent him a song – it might have been “Nocturnal” or one of the darker songs – and he was like, How are you gonna bring this to the light, though? He never let me leave anything too dark.
You grow up singing in church. Are there any moments on this album where you feel like your cultural background in general really shines through?
The core intention of everything I make comes from growing up in the church, making music there. I [found] out that I actually loved music when I was playing for my church. I think growing up and seeing the power in performing and what it can do for others and healing myself… that put a life mission in me. From [childhood,] I was connecting with [and] healing people through music. I think that’s what happened with this album. You can get distracted from that sometimes, but that’s why it’s [the] whole journey through this album is losing yourself and finding yourself and asking questions and bringing it back to yourself.
I love the mix of rock and R&B on “Truth Is.” Talk to me about how that track came together.
That song has traveled. That’s one of the older ones too, probably had that for like four or five years. I remember I started this with [Teddy Walton and Aaron Bow] at an Airbnb one night. I had that version for probably two ears, and then we found out the keys got used on a different beat or something. Years later, I was in this session with Skrillex and he replaced all the keys for me on my laptop. He replayed them all.
So, we got Skrillex and Teddy on that beat, and then the switch up was something Aaron was making and I was like, Bro, that just fits, so I just threw it at the end of it. If I would have just made that two years ago and dropped it, it wouldn’t have been nearly as incredible as it is today. That’s a good example of a three-year wait being worth it for one song.
What was it like working with Skrillex?
Man, that’s one of the more beautiful, brighter times of the pandemic was. Rex Kudo has been such a good person and an incredible producer. He’s mentored by Rick Rubin, so over pandemic, when the studios were closed, he kind of let us stay. We were working at Shangri-La over at Rick Rubin’s spot, and Rex would bring Skrillex through.
I pulled to the studio and there’s ten people in the room. They’re all asleep on the couches and the floors of the studio, and I got there at like 2:00 a.m. after another session. So, I just start recording stuff and this fool Skrillex wakes up from his sleep, and he’s like, “I believe in you,” and went back to sleep.
It’s hilarious, but we connected from that day on. When he woke up in the morning, we were making beats on my laptop. Super cool guy, I’m thankful to meet those types of people in the industry who are so embracing and welcoming and inspiring.
He’s a beast on Ableton too, so I learned a lot from him. The stuff he did on “Truth Is,” he literally didn’t even get on his laptop. He just came to my laptop and created the sounds from scratch. His sound design is on a different level. He can make a bass out of just the synth note.
How did the Doechii record, “No Judgement,” come together?
I had that hook for probably two years. I really wanted a more club record. This was around the time though she was first coming around TDE, and she blew me away. Honestly, when I first met her and heard her music, I was like, Holy s—t, she’s crazy. She came through on the verse on that one, just set the whole tone. That switch-up at the end wasn’t on the beat until she did her verse. I kind of produced the whole switch-up around her acapella. She changed the whole direction of the song.
You’ve previously mentioned SZA as a dream collaborator. Who else is on that list?
That would be amazing, but she is so busy. And she’s such an artist where it has to happen organically. We’ve done sessions and hung out. But that’s my real friend, I don’t ever want to like [get in the way of that.]
One of the biggest artists I want to work with is Yung Lean. [I’ve] always wanted to do a song with A$AP Rocky. I’ve always loved the psychedelic-ness of his music in the hip hop space.
As your fanbase has grown over time, do you feel like there’s a struggle between keeping them pleased and making what feels right to you?
Yeah, I think there was a time when I [didn’t] care what anybody thinks, but when I look at my fans and everything they’ve done for me, I want to make sure I’m still hearing what they want to hear and at least understanding and being aware of it. I still want to give them things they want. I feel like it’s about finding that balance. That’s what artists like Kendrick mastered with the DAMN. album, his balance of all these concepts and deep ideas with a space where everybody can love them.
The intention has always been to connect with people, so I don’t think you can be deaf to what people want from you.
You’re opening for SiR on tour this year. What are you most excited for?
I’m so excited. I [have] performed some of this music, but I really haven’t put together a live set for this thing yet. I’m hoping to get it at least a two-piece band where I have a key and bass player DJing for me and I have a drummer. We’re supposed to start rehearsals pretty soon. It’s gonna be fun to put together, because I do production and sound design and things like that too. I’m just excited to get up and sing. Performing is probably my favorite part of all of this.
What are some of your favorite performances?
My favorite performance I’ve done to date was Day N Vegas. That was right before the pandemic, we were starting to do all the festivals, but that was one of my favorite.
[Also] just growing up in the and playing for church. I go back home, and my mom is in a bunch of bands too, so I’ll perform with her just in random places in Bakersfield sometimes. Live music has been a big part of my life.
Who are some of your biggest influences when it comes to live performance?
My mom, bro. My mom is in more bands [and] doing more gigs than me right in Bakersfield. She’s going crazy right now. She’s practicing every day, and I need to be where she is! She’s actually locked in.
Speaking of the pandemic, how did that impact your relationship with music and your career?
That was a rough time. I was in a relationship that ended during pandemic, So that inspired a lot of the of the stuff I would be writing about. [Everything] slowed everything down career-wise too. I was just starting new festivals and we [were] going to start dropping music. I really had to go back into myself and figure out what I want this to do, but I also didn’t feel as rushed anymore because the whole world slowed down. It wasn’t just me.
The pandemic changed the whole trajectory of my life, honestly. I haven’t felt the same since then.
Do you want to go back to who you were before? Are there parts of that person that you want to go back to?
I want to grow past that anxiety that I built. I feel like I never [overthought] things as much as I did until you’re just trapped in a house for years. It was hard to get out of that. But this year has been great for me, I got my brother with me too. He moved in with me. I’m excited for the future.
What are your biggest hopes for Bliss?
I’m most excited to really connect with more people with this music that I’ve had for so long on my own. No matter how far it goes or where it goes, I just want to be able to connect with more people. I got this message from a kid around the time that I dropped my EP, and he was talking about how my music kept him from committing suicide. I felt like, Damn, whatever I make after this could go anywhere. One person’s life has been saved [by my music.] My hope is for this album to help people through things [and] remind them they’re not alone.
How do you view Bliss in relation to your Run Wild Run Free (2019) and Sol (2021) EPs?
Run Wild Run Free was [the] brighter side of loneliness. This [album] is where I go through some revelations and darker times and even darker thoughts. Run Wild Run Free is the daytime, and this is the journey through the night.
The whole theme for it is an eclipse too. In the visuals, if you look at Sol as the sun, that four-song EP, it’s like what is blocking the sun? It’s about making it through that. It was all premeditated.
Talk to me some more about the visual world you want to create for this record. Where are you drawing your influences from?
We were just shooting yesterday, like a 14-hour shoot. The eclipse is one of the biggest themes of the album. We still have the wolf. The wolf has always been a big theme.
We’re working on this short film, it’s probably seven or eight minutes. It’s a trailer with the music sprinkled throughout. We have music videos ready too. We’re just making sure we get all the visuals ready before we drop.
I really love psycho thrillers. I love A24. Old Korean films are really good too, that has helped me a lot visually. Rocky’s visuals too; I feel like he’s one of the goats when it comes to visual concepts too. I really like Travis [Scott’s] Utopia short film. I was surprised by that, it was really sick the way they did that.
What’s your favorite A24 movie?
Hereditary — that was the one that put me on.
Did you watch Midsommar?
Oh, I forgot about that one! I remember I rented an Airbnb and the people had all the Midsommar stuff. They had the pole, and we worked on the album there. We watched [the movie] too. I liked how dark of a movie it was, but it’s just in the sunlight, bro. Hella in your face. We ran the cables through a window so we could record acoustic guitar over the river. that was like probably a year or two ago.
Are you a big outdoors guy?
I love hiking. I used to work In Alaska as a fly-fishing guide. I love riding bikes, I’ve been active since I was a kid. I love martial arts as well. I was all over the place as a kid. I’d go to school, then [I had] tap dance, gymnastics, singing, playing for the church, jazz band, etc.
What else do you have planned for fans this year?
The biggest goals of the year [is] to go on tour, so that is what I’m most excited for. I’m so excited to get on the road and get some time out of LA for a little bit and get out of the crib. And dropping more music, man. Once this album’s out, I’m getting really excited to be able to start [the] next one with the slate.
I want to [drop] more loosies or just singles. My second album will probably take about two years, [but] I want to drop more consistently in between.
